James, I actually see little that we disagree on here. I mentioned L’Arche; Nouwen writes frequently on how working with the handicapped is a gift to him as well has his own ministry. In my own work with widows, the suffering, the disabled, etc. – limited as it is – I would agree. Jesus is right: no shock here. But the example that began this discussion was Down’s Syndrome in particular; unless I’ve missed something greatly, a person with Down’s Syndrome can’t serve as a pastor and probably not in a serious lay leadership roll. Is this person still a gift? Of course. A part of the Body of Christ? Yes. Probably the first in the Kingdom? Yes.

I think the poor, less educated and ignorant (however defined) are an entirely different question. Many great pastors and leaders are poor, crippled, lesser (formally) educated. At the end of the day, though, we are all called to follow Christ, with the Spirit’s help, as best we can.

A larger direction I would take your comment is that we have lost the ministry of the laity almost completely. I am not THE minister. I am a pastor, my job is, as Saint Paul says, “equipping the Saints” for ministry. We’re all in this together. I think healthy pastors in healthy congregations will find that the people are a gift to him or her also, and those folks will minister to their pastor. I’ve been surprised by this myself. But the larger tragedy of American Christianity is that most of our people – handicapped or not – are consumers of religion, rather than Disciples of the risen Lord.

Oh, and I do not know why this is not coming up, but my own page is:

http://www.pastormack.wordpress.com

Versions of the photos are shown on the sites you mention, but the one shown here is from my site. That’s how I found out about this post; my server show a list of everyone linking content from my site. Just check the source code or hover over the image to see.

At any rate I don’t mind the inline image link at all, just wanted to let people know where it came from.

Cheers,

JM

One chromosome too many.

Cheers,

JM

I read your post, Ellen (I always enjoy reading you) and scanned through the comments. Not living in the US and not reading the books on church growth, I may be missing a common thread. So, my comments may be about asparagus while you are really talking about peaches for all I know. Please forgive if I’m not on the planet!!!

It seems to me the core issue is less about leadership and more about spiritual authority. This has been a theme of challenge for us in going into missions. Our “home church” did not feel we were called. Our friends (who have known us longer) said emphatically that they saw God’s call in us clearly. Whom do we submit to? Whose ‘leadership’ do we follow?

I did the American thing and started my own not-for-profit, created a board and declared them to have authority over me. Mind you, they are not a rubber stamping board, but I did create it and nurture it. It leaves me feeling rouge-ish in the church and at the same time confirmed in call and direction. Our home church has since split, dropped our support and has become a relational mess. We’ve had to find another church home but feel like waifs without place or belonging.

Scriptures don’t help much here, in my opinion. The Centurion is commended for his faith and understanding of the way authority functions. The original church models show a hierarchy in decision making and commissioning. Yet, we are to be least and mutually submit.

In our soul care of pastors and missionaries I’m always a bit dismayed by the lack of authority connection among leaders. Many who sit with us are truly disconnected for a myriad of reasons – some are in broken structures. Others have chosen to be autonomous and thus end up in crisis. And still others are only connect superficially thinking they have deep roots until the crisis emerges and they discover the tap root is missing.

Many I speak to say these examples expose poor leadership. And while that may be true, I think it exposes something far more dark and uncomfortable for us to truly and honestly examine.

Can a severely handicap individual lead? I’m not the one to ask. But I do wonder whether they can provide the necessary spiritual authority under which we all must function and submit. I even wonder the same about myself as our staff continues to grow and my board actually takes me seriously as a man who wishes to listen to the movement of the Spirit.

I really don’t like asparagus and I don’t even care for peaches. So, make of this what you will! Thanks for the context to think aloud. It’s fun.

I would suspect that we might disagree on the importance of the rigors of daily administration but what I am really wondering is what role(s) should severe handicaps, the undereducated, the poor, undertrained, undercapable play in living out our faith as a communal way of life? I believe that we have overvalued a corrupted form of “leadership” that leads to seeing these people only as receivers of our ministry (we visit them, and minister to them, etc) but we have completely lost our ability to be ministered to by them.

I sense that this is part of what Ellen is getting at in her post. All of the people in the community of faith have gifts to share with the community and when we structure things in such a way that only the professional, qualified are allowed to offer their contributions then the whole community loses, regardless of how educated or qualified those professionals are. My concern is not just that we have lost the contributions and gifts of the severely handicapped. We have lost the contributions and gifts of the large majority of the congregation.

Peace!

JM

My reason for engaging in the conversation is not because I think we should replace all church leadership with mentally disabled people (I don’t think that was your point), nor that gifted, intelligent, trained, experienced leadership is bad (again not your point).

Rather I see that the church is (and has been for sometime) in crisis. Right now she is often not salt and light any longer. She is not counter-cultural. The church is morally challenged, as you mentioned, and losing ground. It has been a long time since God added to our numbers daily those who are being saved. I think most of us know the dismal statistics of church closings and numerical loss, not to mention our lack of impact on the spiritual climate of our culture.

I believe this crisis can be a good thing, if it drives us to look carefully at our individual and corporate hearts, minds, systems, and beliefs and repent.

Repentance means, in part, admitting the crisis it is not necessarily Joel Osteen’s (and his type) fault. Though he, as well as I, have a role. The system does not simply need better trained, more moral, more intelligent leaders, though these would be good additions.

It is in large part a systemic problem. Too often we have built the church on a foundation of sand (trusting in modernism, logic, business principles, bottom-line, leaders as CEO’s, etc.). These things are not evil and often are a blessing. They just cannot be our foundation because they flow first from our own thinking and efforts. The foundation of our lives as church is something more than this, but seems to us something less. For me, how that looks and operates is still shaping. This conversation has helped.

And Mack, thanks for your sharpening of my thinking in this conversation. And forgive me for putting words in your mouth.

The question Ellen’s essay made me ask is this: Can I, a gifted, intelligent, trained, experienced, called leader (please, this is not bragging but categorizing, many are more gifted, intelligent, etc.) lean not on my own understanding? Too often my answer is no. God, help me understand what that mysterious idea of the last shall be first means and please forgive and transform me. Help me to see and hear how you speak and lead through the least of these to bring salvation, mercy, justice, and righteousness to our aching world.

Perhaps the issue is what we mean by “lead.” If by lead you mean example, showing the way, etc. then I am on board. If you mean their witness should be incorporated into the life of the church (as seen at L’Arche) and taken seriously as Christian testimony, I’m with you. I merely mean that folks with extremely severe handicaps cannot cope with the rigors of daily administration of church life, visitation, counseling, etc. I have no doubts that they will be ahead of us in the Kingdom, however. Though I hope and pray that the Kingdom will be greater, more just, more joyful, than even the most good-natured of our imaginations.